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 A few questions before I start my project.

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blackburth



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Join date : 2013-05-28

PostSubject: A few questions before I start my project.   Tue May 28, 2013 9:46 am

Hello Everyone!

I have wanted to make a Zelda themed game for many years.
A year ago, I decided it was finally time to start making it.

I spent a few months fiddling with ocarina of time, but discovered options with this were too limited for my tastes.
I then considered programming an ocarina of time like game, but soon (After about 2 days) decided not to because Programming a 3D game from scratch is too much of a hassle.


Then I arrived on my second favorite Zelda game: Zelda 3: A Link to the Past.
Now, I again have 2 options:
*The first option is to use the currently existing tools to alter the world of Zelda 3 to my ideas.

*The second would be: programming Zelda 3 from scratch, much like the ROTH Trilogy. Now, anyone who has played this will agree with me that the controls feel less smooth than the original, and the animations are less smooth as well. I am not saying the game is bad, I loved the games from start to finish. However, this would give me infinite possibilities.


The real question of this topic is, what are the limits of the currently existing Zelda 3 tools. This can be divided in 3 major questions:

-Can I create my own monsters/bosses with their own individual attack patterns?

-Can I create my own items? Like adding 3 more levels to the sword, or creating something like the Gust Jar from The Minish Cap?

-Can I create new cutscenes? For example: A small sequence of enemies carrying off a group of villagers, much like the opening of Zelda 3 where the guards take one of the sages.


Answers to these questions will be greatly appreciated.

Sincere regards,
Blackburth.

EDIT: Oh, and perhaps some links to your favorite tutorials would be awesome Very Happy.
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Puzzledude

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions before I start my project.   Tue May 28, 2013 2:35 pm

-Can I create my own monsters/bosses with their own individual attack patterns?

Yes, using tools by wiiqwert. Sprite inserter = for inserting custom sprites, Overlord = in use with sprite inserter, xkas = asm inserter. However, this is considered as advanced asm.

-Can I create my own items? Like adding 3 more levels to the sword, or creating something like the Gust Jar from The Minish Cap?

In a theory. No Z3 hack has a brand new item. There was an idea to equip Link with the Morning star weapon, used by some guards. But the Gust Jar is probably to complex. I was actually thinking of implementing a Ladder, to climb from bg2 to bg1, but the problem is, that you need to "erase" one item first. So basically you need to choose an already existing item, inspect its code and change it completely. Again advanced asm.

-Can I create new cutscenes? For example: A small sequence of enemies carrying off a group of villagers, much like the opening of Zelda 3 where the guards take one of the sages.

This one is out of reach with the current tools, as well as events. To recode events and other complex code, like ending or beginning sequence, we would need some more advanced tools. For instance the ending sequence cut scenes are a pain to edit, the code is "unfriendly". To edit the cutscenes, MathOnNapkins is planing to first make a tool to "scan" the scene and convert it to "something more natural" acording to MoN, when asked how his Black Magic editor would handle events and cutscenes.

---------------

Currently Z3 modding is a very difficult job, since there's no LunarMagic like in SMW, and no FuSoYa to update it every month. If you want to edit Alttp and not bug it out completely, you need to know the actual code in hex, to be able to debug all those bugs that Hyrule Magic makes. But the problem is Not in the editor alone. Alttp is a very packed up game (no space possible for editing), so HM can not handle it and makes errors.

Basically the program extends the space in a wrong way. Making small edits on original Alttp will most surely brake the Naming and Title screen. So if you don't know how to fix this in hex, you will have bugs. The same with monologue (edit it and it will surely brake the camera shake, which is in the next bank).

So basically we would need a recoded Alttp, which has all the main data correctly realocated to make as few bugs as possible when edited in HM, and a lot of actual hex code as a backup in the plain txt files.

---------------

For all beginners I would recommend to wait, until Math On Napkins finishes his Alttp Black Magic editor. Then even a beginner could do it (since using the bugfree editor is something a lot easier, than what is currently expected from a Alttp modder).

---------------
PS
Zelda ROTH is Not using the same Engine as Alttp. It has a completely different code. I know there are also some user friendly and bugfree editors for editing/making those Z3 clones. If I compare those programs to what we have for the original Alttp, those programs are much more advance, however the game doesn't feel like the original Alttp.

---------------
PPS
SePH is currently working on the awesome Z3 hacking guide (he included multiple documents by many Alttp modders). Will probably be done in a month or two. And I've released a pack of all the Alttp tools currently available over at acmlm board2.
But this doesn't change a fact, that Alttp modding still needs its primary, user-friendly and bugfree editor.


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blackburth



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PostSubject: Re: A few questions before I start my project.   Tue May 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Thank you for all your great answers, Puzzledude.

I guess I'll wait with actually starting my project until a beta of BlackMagic is released, or at least until the guide is released. But I could design some textures and make some small things to get in touch with the overall feel of modding the game.
And knowing some ASM can never hurt, I suspect it will still be necessary even with BlackMagic.

The different engine was exactly why I asked this question, I loved the games a lot, but for every game I played, I realized more and more that it just doesn't feel the same.

Again, thank you for your responses.

regards,
Blackburth.

------

PS: I noticed there were about 3 2013 posts on this forum. Is it dead? Or just hibernating while waiting for BlackMagic?
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Puzzledude

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PostSubject: Re: A few questions before I start my project.   Tue May 28, 2013 4:21 pm

You can start by editing some rooms of the Hyrule castle of Alttp in Hyrule Magic, since the indoor editing is somehow easier than overworld. Just dont edit the throne room (tends to bug).

You can also try to edit some gfx of the sprites and some gfx tiles, like the tree, bush or stump. This is really a separate issue, not connected with the actual editor.

The problem with Black Magic is, when it will be released. It is 10 years in developement already. Plus, all files modified in HM will not work in BM. A full Z3 hack done with BM is probably over a decade (or more) away.

Ironicaly all the Z3 clones have a lot better editors already.

Who knows why this site is not alive. Probably because Alttp is very difficult to edit in general (for instance SMW and Super Metroid are much more appealing/easier and have better editors).

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